Nathan Coppens, a remarkable artist living with ADHD. His play "I Have No Idea" is more than just a stage production; it's a window into the nuanced world of neurodiversity, emphasizing the power of empathy and the strength found in non-romantic relationships. The conversation ventures into the realm of music education, where his own experiences underscore the transformative influence of family and public schooling in fostering artistic passions—a rallying cry for the preservation of music programs that are fading from our schools.
Links related to this episode:
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100089078982273
Have No Idea at Live Five: https://livefive.ca/i-have-no-idea
https://www.listentodis.com/
https://oncueregina.ca/
Thank you to SaskCulture, SKArts, and Sask Lotteries for your generous support.
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STARTING SEASON 2, THEME MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
Patrick Moon Bird: https://linktr.ee/PatrickMoonBird
https://www.facebook.com/PatrickMoonBirdMusic/
Kevin Power: http://www.kevinpower.net/ The Saskscapes Podcast: https://saskscapes.buzzsprout.com/
Nathan Coppens, a remarkable artist living with ADHD. His play "I Have No Idea" is more than just a stage production; it's a window into the nuanced world of neurodiversity, emphasizing the power of empathy and the strength found in non-romantic relationships. The conversation ventures into the realm of music education, where his own experiences underscore the transformative influence of family and public schooling in fostering artistic passions—a rallying cry for the preservation of music programs that are fading from our schools.
Links related to this episode:
https://m.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100089078982273
Have No Idea at Live Five: https://livefive.ca/i-have-no-idea
https://www.listentodis.com/
https://oncueregina.ca/
Thank you to SaskCulture, SKArts, and Sask Lotteries for your generous support.
Visit our website: https://www.saskartsalliance.ca
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saskartsalliance/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/skartsalliance
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saskartsalliance/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@saskatchewanartsalliance57
STARTING SEASON 2, THEME MUSIC PROVIDED BY:
Patrick Moon Bird: https://linktr.ee/PatrickMoonBird
https://www.facebook.com/PatrickMoonBirdMusic/
Kevin Power: http://www.kevinpower.net/ The Saskscapes Podcast: https://saskscapes.buzzsprout.com/
Your collective voice for the Arts Across Saskatchewan. This is Arts Everywhere, the Saskatchewan Arts Alliance podcast. I have no idea. I have no idea what it feels like to live with ADHD. I have no idea what it feels like to be neurodivergent. Okay, stay with me, this is going somewhere.
Speaker 1:Here's a question what was the last play you saw on stage? Did you see yourself reflected in the story? Yes, you say. Well, don't take that for granted. It's a good thing to see yourself reflected in a play. The same could be true for a story you read, or say a movie you saw.
Speaker 1:But what if you sat through a 90 minute play and you don't see yourself reflected in any of the characters? And what if those characters are going through something you simply couldn't identify with? Therein lies the true power of art to challenge your mind, to expand your point of view, to elicit empathy and understanding. And maybe, just maybe, at the end of the 90 minutes you'll say to yourself now I know something. I know I have seen life through someone else's invisible ability. So here comes Nathan Coppens, this episode's guest, and Nathan took his journey with ADHD to the stage by writing the script. The music is even acting in the play. The play is I have no Idea, and after you hear Nathan's story you'll have some idea. And if you have the opportunity to see I have no Idea on stage, you'll get even more insight into what it's like to be, as Nathan says in this episode, just being Nathan.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for making the time to come and chat this afternoon. I'm really, really appreciative that you could come and have a conversation.
Speaker 3:I like conversations. Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I guess maybe for some of the folks out there who would be listening, maybe just give a brief introduction to yourself and who you are and what you do.
Speaker 3:I'm Nathan. I edit that, I'm Nathan. I'm Nathan Coppens, I'm in Saskatoon and I I mean I was raised in Regina. I've lived out of the province for a few years. I'm in Saskatoon and I'm an actor, musician puppeteer music director and and and music teacher, and oh and buddy and playwright producer, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I guess that's kind of where our paths first crossed to some degree. Right, yeah Was with your production of, I have no Idea in Regina.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that might that might be a interesting place to start. Like I was wondering, maybe if you want to talk a little bit about that. And yeah, also because you know it might be a good chance to to let some of the folks listening know that it's going to be happening again. It is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's. It's. It's happening again with Live 5 in March, March 2024. Awesome, so their website looks fantastic. Yeah, yeah, there's. You know they have the full season, all the shows look great and it's super cool to like see all the like what they're doing. So you can go to live5.ca to check that out. But I have no idea. I think that's it, live5.ca. Yeah, yeah, it was a, or it is a play for characters to actors and it's about adult ADHD and then like you know, that's specifically what it's about.
Speaker 3:But then, you know, it gets broader into like mental health, and we don't specifically talk about other diagnoses or disorders or you know whatever you want to call them, but I mean I would, I would see parallels. It's especially about a cup. One of the characters in particular is kind of butting heads and going up against like a system that doesn't believe them. You know, and I think that's common, from what I understand, is common across a lot of you know, especially mental health things, but physical health as well, where there's a lot of physical health disorders that aren't, you know, understood and you know, not all disabilities are visible, right. So it touches on that, but it's, I mean it deals with that, but it's like through the lens of ADHD.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, that's it's. It's a show about that. And then the friendship between this character and you know another character that you know has it but has at least later in life. You know they've been able to get some help. So I think one thing that came out of that first production was it's to me, it's also, you know, maybe a bit about or a lot about, like they're the support that you need.
Speaker 3:And that there's just like love, their relationship. Yeah, it's yeah, Just two people where there's no like romantic or anything going on, and it's just like a totally wholesome, overwhelming kind of like love and support and friendship. And you know it's such a great relationship to like to play, to have written that with help and to play one of those characters and then to Crystal Harder plays the other, and like just to be able to explore what like paths to diagnoses and to treatment and everything that two different people can have that could be possibly based on. You know their own well, their experiences, but also the way they present.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like the way they well also like presenting to the world, as in like, oh, you know, cis, male, and then Taylor and Crystal are you know the character and then the actor are like different right. So presenting in that way, but also just the manifestation of symptoms where people go yeah, that's not a diagnosis, that's just your, your, you know, absent minded, your flighty, your unreliable, you know your whatever, instead of like understanding what the disorder actually you know is and how it could present in different people, so I hope that made sense.
Speaker 2:I think it did so. Was this your first time writing and directing, and like your own production?
Speaker 3:It was the first. Well, I didn't direct it.
Speaker 2:Okay, sorry yeah.
Speaker 3:But it was sort of the first. I mean I kind of counted as the first time writing.
Speaker 3:I lived in Edmonton like from 2006 to 2012 and sometime in those years I wrote a one act play that was done by a community theater there as part of like a one act festival. It never really got developed and I don't talk about it. It wasn't necessarily like it wasn't really my play to write, I don't think, and then I wasn't happy with it. So, yeah, this is the first like professional production, first play that was geared towards like we're going to have you know, I mean, I work professionally in the arts but it was the first one where it was like, yeah, this is geared to be like work with other professionals. You know, have it a big, like a bigger production. Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3:And we've got. Like you know, I wrote music for it as well, so there's music as a huge component and comedy. You know which is the show, so I've also written, like I've written music before, but not, you know, not a full like, not a script.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was really. You know, I think it was a, I think you did a fantastic job with it. First off, and well, maybe try to time the timing of this, the release of this podcast, for for when it opens in Saskatoon, so maybe we can use that as a bit of a, a bit of a promo. But I would definitely encourage anybody who has the chance this coming spring to come and check it out how, how, what, what brought you to the point of of bringing it to life.
Speaker 3:A mix of things the pandemic, yeah. Yeah, the pandemic, and it was just timed with like my own, like discovery of like ADHD within myself.
Speaker 3:Yeah so it started there and then it was like with the pandemic. It was like, okay, I, I'm, I might as well like, if I'm ever gonna try to, you know, write something else, I might as well be now. Yeah, I was on the Serb. You know we're sitting at Horn doing other other things and people had always said, you know, the advice they always give to Theater artists presumably lots of others is if you're not getting work, make it right and.
Speaker 3:And then it was okay. But I'm not just. I have no interest in just telling you know mine and having it be about me. So let's go interview other people.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Let's talk like some of the people were, like ADHD was in the zeitgeist and still is so. Conversations with people, interviews with people, different Ages, different races, different genders right and you know different experiences and and then that kind of came together. You know, I mean, did those interviews and then it's not a verbatim play, but some of that it's like informed by what people said, oh cool. And there are a couple of things that, like, a couple of people said where I was like, do you might like that sentence was great.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna use that. Can I use that?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I'm not quoting everything else word for word, but I could not have put that in a more like that's such a powerful way to say something, or something really funny or whatever, yeah, you know. And then like multiple revisions and drafts and it was like okay, this is an actual thing. There was like, okay, like this is, this is a good time to try to address this and to be like okay, let's put something on stage that people, that audiences you know haven't seen and hopefully that means audiences that would wouldn't normally go Because they don't see themselves on stage and then can go and be like and that was the response. I think a lot of people were like I've never seen this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:I saw me up there and I'd never seen that before, so it was like the great time, I think, to try to start it and hopefully it just grows and grows, and grows, and you know, keeps going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. So you grew up in Regina, yeah, yeah, how did you? How did you get your start in in the arts, in theater and music, like how, how did that kind of evolve for you?
Speaker 3:I was taking my mom plays piano.
Speaker 3:She said mom, if you're listening, you don't play as much as you should, but she was a I mean, it's not what she does professionally, but she, you know, there's always music in the house and dad loved to also just like put on records and CDs and stuff and, you know, dance around doing the choice all of us kind of would. So, um, music was around and then I started taking. We had an organ in the house I don't and then, yeah, I started taking organ lessons when I was a bit five and then eventually it switched, like I went to piano. Now I play both, but you know, and my sister did, I think it was sacks for a while. She plays guitar, a little bit of piano.
Speaker 3:So it was always encouraged, you know, and like we were lucky enough to, you know, have Music lessons and then there was music classes, just like a regular class in our elementary school, right, and I had some fantastic teachers. You know, probably some of that weren't so great, but like God, the ones that were great, like, stick with you, right. Yeah so, and that's even in just like public education.
Speaker 3:I remember one music teacher that he went to another school, maybe another city, you know whatever when at the end of the for me grade four and he came around to all the classes and said goodbye and played a song and we all like danced and crud, like it was like People were actually the nine-year-old nine ten-year-old students were actually like crying that he was, you know leaving, yeah, but happy you know another, but like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I was like people can make such a difference, you know, in the public education system. And then privately, I had teachers that were like, yeah, okay, we'll do, let's do the music that you want to play if we got to teach you some stuff so that you know fundamentals and you know how to do this. But I heard you say something the other day about you really liked you know this bet middler song. So here's this bed middler song, like let's try to learn this, how do you play this? And like or one we went to cycle older and started going like oh, you know what I like some of the old, like ragtime and like Jazz and but then like folk and you know old school, like Old school country, not the modern, but like you know some of that kind of, you know, interesting stuff in a lot of genres and he was like I wrote this song, here's this jazz, like here's this.
Speaker 3:so let's do a bit of Okay, we'll do some, you know so, and then let's also do a bit of like Oscar Peterson and they're like here's, here's an Elvis tune, here's, you know, garth Brooks, or like whatever. And Different composers, different writers. You know Also different genders and not just sticking to one, you know thing yeah and. I was like this is so cool. That's somebody who told me like, yeah, he did a lot of classical, but then he goes and plays jazz and boogie woogie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I like this. You can. This is awesome. That was music and you know, grandma would sit and grandma with my grandma, while my mom's Parents, at least that's. I'd lived close, so she'd come over and she'd be listening to me practice or whatever. You know. Lots of family support, but like that, and lessons and then theater. I think I took my first theater camp when I was like 12.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I didn't do like a lot of the you know, high school drama clubs. Yeah, I, I Did have like bit parts in a couple of place, but I was one like I want to get involved, I want to, I want to, but I wasn't into the actual like drama of drama, like that you know clickiness, yeah, so like okay, I like that, like there's something here that I want to do and it was growing and growing and growing.
Speaker 3:And then I did some stuff with, like Regina Little Theater and Got into you in University. Like when I registered I knew like, yeah, I'm going for the BF, like the theater department right like it wasn't Switching majors all the time, or you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, so yeah yeah, that's that's a really important conversation that we're having quite a bit at the Arts Alliance right now is around the importance of music education. Yeah, the importance of music education within the public school system. Yeah, because what we're hearing right now from different Music educators and organizations and musicians is that it seems like and especially in Regina were that a lot of that is Possibly dwindling, yeah, which is really scary actually. Yeah, so we're getting, we're getting some groups together, we're getting some people together, probably within the next month or so. We've had some initial meetings, kind of with the Saskatchewan Music Educators Association, okay, and some of the music organizations that exist, to talk about it and to try to be better advocates for music education in Saskatchewan, and we're gonna continue those conversations, I think, on a wider level with a more broad range of people and organizations, particularly in Regina, but you know we're open to having anyone involved in the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, but it's. I think it's a huge thing to talk about because a lot of the people you know, even people I've talked to on this Podcast that are involved with music or and again, like you said before, it goes, it can go beyond music, it's anything to do with the arts. Yeah, when you're, when you're exposed to it, when you're a young person and you're supported in that and you have people to guide and help you in it, You're, you're just going to be able to flourish so much more.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, and like oh, no like it's all so important right and and yeah, to get that into schools. It's like music can be that, but it's just like fun, yeah, oh. So Like it should be fun and like why should kids, especially kids that maybe like have ADHD or whatever like music taps into me, I can focus the shit out of music.
Speaker 3:It's like a stupid way to put it, but like I can sit there for hours, I can't focus on math, I can't focus on you know, whatever else, or I have difficulties with concentration and all this.
Speaker 2:Music all day.
Speaker 3:And like it just speaks a language. It can speak, a language that it can communicate and it is its own language or it's own, like it's a multitude of languages, depending on what genre, where you are in the world. All this stuff and like if you can't process language in one way, like music for some people is a language that is processable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:And whether it's through playing, through singing, which is still playing, an instrument, but yeah, or dance, moving to it, like we don't listen to music, we don't get it in our bodies, we don't interact with music, but we did. Well, that's what we think, but we do because it's like it's in our movies, it's in our video games, it's like in the car as we're driving somewhere, it's in our headphones, but we go like, yeah, but I don't know what music I like, but it's all around us. But we don't think it's either a commodity supporting something else or it. And that's so foreign to me, because to me it's just an intrinsic part of life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was interesting. One of the things that we talked about that could you know? An idea we threw around at one of the music meetings that we had talking about music education and awareness and things was, you know it would be an interesting campaign to essentially like show all you know, just have no music for the day, but like show that you know, like if you think about everything around you I turn on the car radio or you've got TV on in the morning or you're you know all that, all that sorts of things if you kind of showed it like as silent.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had an interesting experience and I got to go to. There was a when the Saskatoon Symphony had the Museum of the Moon here. That was great so cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:First off, it was just really neat to be able to see that. And then I saw one of their concerts with. That was performed in the church with the Moon, and I hadn't been to see any classical music for a really long time and if I'm being completely honest, I haven't there's probably not that many occasions in my whole life that I've seen a lot of. I've been to a few symphonies, you know, here and there, but it really hasn't been, you know, a commonplace, reoccurring thing in my life. But what I was really struck by was like I kept it really referenced in my mind, probably because that's my most continuous exposure to it. Like I just kept thinking like, oh, this is so cinematic or it's so, and I was like, oh, that's probably a lot of people's connection.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think so, but it's and it's like yeah, but what about other songs? Like some music is tied so much into memory, right, and like people that have Alzheimer's or dementia or whatever. It's like they don't remember, like everything's gone. But you start singing or playing a song from their childhood and they know every word. Yeah, like, or, or if they're you know, if they, you can YouTube the videos of like former dancers who are in their 80s, 90s and they like. Everything else is like a blur.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Or whatever, but like they can still remember the dance moves is from whatever piece they were doing, Like the classical whatever you know, and like there's such a connection there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you're right.
Speaker 1:Like the orchestral stuff can be like cinematic, that's the word. But like.
Speaker 3:It's just I don't feel like me. I saw an interview with well, part of an interview with Paul Simon the other day where they asked him like what you know do you use? At your age Like now, do you still like play every day? Or like what? And he said I do. I don't feel like me if I don't.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so it was.
Speaker 3:I don't always sit down to practice. Do I practice? No, but like I'm playing making up stuff, or so there's practice in that, but I just don't. It's not me if I don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and.
Speaker 3:I was like, yeah, I get that because I don't need to sit down every day and be like I'm gonna run these drills. Drills are really good, but like it's not all the time, but like it's just yeah.
Speaker 3:It's such a connection, and within that, yeah, and I wish that we would think of music not just as like something that's on in the background, but that's part of our lives, and that could even be like. I'll ask people like hey, do you like to dance? And they're like no, and they're embarrassed. I'm like why should you be embarrassed? You have a body.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, if you can use it, or however you can use it, use it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like why is this an embarrassing thing? Other cultures, dance is a normal thing or dance is like celebrated, and here it's only celebrated when you're on stage instead of when you're in, like the kitchen right.
Speaker 2:And I don't understand that yeah, for sure I love.
Speaker 3:I think part of that role with like music education in school is not saying like, oh, you have to learn like what a G-flat is, you just have to like what is music about? It could be like that music teacher that I talked about from my elementary school. Like I'm sure he taught us like a little bit about notes and stuff, but one thing he would do when I'm playing softly like this, he run around the room and like do whatever comes to your imagination, but then I'm gonna go dun-duh-dun-duh-dun-duh-dun-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh or whatever, and you lie down on the floor and squirm like you're a bug, yeah, and this was like fun and it got music in your body. So it was amazing, yeah. So like why can't we have that in school? Like that's so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just the experience and the familiarity with how music affects you or how it can be a part of your life, for sure, yeah. Yeah, one of the things about your play or about I have no idea that I was really struck by was your songwriting. Is that something that you do quite a lot of, or was this kind of, or was it something that was new? I mean, yeah, just interested in hearing about songwriting for you.
Speaker 3:It comes and goes. I have written before. There are phrases where I'm like I'm trying to write a lot and others where I'm just I don't want to deal with that and there was some what was written for that. There's underscore, like underscoring music in the play. That was loosely written for, like you know, we're playing this while I'm doing a monologue, or playing this while in the middle of a scene between Taylor or Chris, well, between Taylor and Robin, like the character I play or one of the characters I play, like.
Speaker 3:So it's like cause music is used as a language, again as a language or something to express like you think people with neurodivergencies can't do things. Well, look at like this, and Taylor has you know a similar thing. For them it's like okay. For them it's like knowledge about coffee and all the way they can go down a rabbit hole there. And for Robin it's music you know, and how we can connect with that. So part of like some of the incidental kind of stuff in the scenes there was that was more written like for the play within the loose structure.
Speaker 3:Some of the songs were things that I had before. Oh, cool. Okay, one of them was fairly recent, like, and I went, I actually think, and we altered, like we edited some of them, not the music, but like lyrics, or we were like, okay, yeah, this is a great song, this should work really well as a song, but it's six fucking minutes. We can't have just music like we need to break it up somehow here to keep the story going. So, you know, there was editing like that, which is a thing that is super difficult when you're like ADHD.
Speaker 3:So it's like a mix of stuff that existed before and then changing it, and then some stuff that was just, you know, for the play. And yeah, it comes in like I love writing, but like sometimes I also find like, okay, if I'm doing like one creative thing, that's taking all my energy, you know, in terms of creation, yeah, then it's like when I go and play music, I just need to play something else, Play something like I don't play something for fun or try to learn another song, or, you know, maybe I'm learning other songs for another project and I'm like, yeah, I don't have the capacity to try to create in a different way, like birth, a song or whatever, and so yeah yeah, but it's, yeah, I love writing.
Speaker 3:Billy Joel has something where he said I love having written. I hate writing and I'm like there's. I understand that, like it's a process of exploration to go like you have all these techniques and methods and you have like there's, well, it comes up in the play. We talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 3:There's like it's not just magic. You know it doesn't come out of nowhere. It comes out of knowing structures and languages and like different theories and all this stuff. But then you have to go what suits this song, what language or what you know? What sounds work here, what you know? So it's almost like throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, or like paring it down. You know so, but then not getting stuck in habits either.
Speaker 3:And trying to okay, I'm gonna try to break this, I'm gonna try to break this, I'm gonna try to break this, and sometimes you go no, that's not what this? Song needs, though, and sometimes it's yeah, no, it does need like, does need this, or maybe I need to do this just so that I can write a better song later on. Generative, for sure you just cut me off if I'm talking too much, because I feel like I am.
Speaker 2:It's all good, it's all good. So you did your university in Regina, yeah, and then where did your journey take you from there?
Speaker 3:Where did I go from there? Oh, then I went to Edmonton. I graduated in 2005. I only have a BFA. I would kind of like to go. Well, I know, sorry that sounds so stupid. No, honestly, I say the same thing I say, the same thing.
Speaker 2:It's, and it's something that I've kind of had to, you know, I think, and so I call people, I call other people on it when they say that too, because I think there's often a pressure, maybe within the fine art structure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you get more right, so yeah, but it's not always that straightforward.
Speaker 3:No, no, it's not. I have a BFA in acting and like so, yeah, that's still the well. I don't know how to. I got into music before I got into acting, but I'm still like acting as well, right so, and acting and all that stuff, and like there are times when one takes over and it's more acting and then, but I'm still playing music at home or whatever, but then music takes over for a bit and you know, whatever, I didn't do any music in university. And now I'm like, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Which is kind of crazy to think about.
Speaker 3:I never would have thought that yeah and other people now are like you know what you probably basically have like an undergrad degree and like music can come positioned with all that and I'm like yeah, I just went like a different way. So I don't know if I'd go like maybe I'd get accredited or you know, something like that but, I'm cool with the way I did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:But I went to Edmonton after that and just worked in as much theater and stuff as I could. Yeah, they didn't really break in a lot. There's a lot you have to learn when you're you know, out of school.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And also when you're, you know, when you have a certain amount of privilege.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then when you're like I also don't realize, I'm neurodivergent, so there's a fuckload. I'm like why is Nathan doing that? Oh, he's just being Nathan, why don't I like that? Yeah like oh, okay, Part of that is learning. Oh, it could be okay for me to do that, and part of it is like there are other people here, yeah, and you know, like just be conscious that not everybody was as lucky in some ways as you are and or you were, but that also they have other things where they're more lucky than you.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, and you know how do you work with that. So like well, and a lot of like some of the reasons I feel like I didn't get into. I was involved in the scene but like indie friends and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:But I feel like I didn't break in with, like bigger companies there was was partly attributed to like ADHD and going I don't know how to get my ducks in or I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know these things Like I, and then I can't figure out how to do them and I can't process in the same way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's like systems are built for you know, neurotypic, neurotypicality, yeah, and then you know if you're outside of that, especially if you don't know. That's a struggle, right. Yeah, and I, you know, it's partly that and it's partly just the I wasn't very like good at audition, Like when I did get auditions and was able to figure out that process, I sometimes was, it went well. Sometimes it just wasn't good and that was on me, you know.
Speaker 3:But there are things like that or it's like so you know, I was there for a few years. Great friends yeah.
Speaker 2:And did some cool shows. Nice to have an experience in another place, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then and I did get some like full on contracts- yeah, and I was like you know, for the last three years I think I had about like one a year, but I'm like, yeah, I could have done. You know, and that's partly what like ADHD feels like a lot of when you get like diagnosed, especially when you start getting help, you realize there's a lot more work to do. That's not just taking a medication or whatever, finding the right meds, and then you're good. There's still therapy and there's still the daily stuff you want to try to do and I'm not very good at that, but I'm trying and but there can be a lot of anger of like, oh shit, what could I have done?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:If I'd gotten the help before, right, yeah, why didn't? And especially for like. Well, for me too. But for like I was angry, but I was gonna say especially, I think, for like a lot of the female presenting women, non-binary, you know whatever, where it's like yeah, they just weren't believed because still, typically what gets diagnosed is young boys and most people who are women aren't young boys right Right yeah, so it's like angering, yeah, cause you're like it wasn't a defect on my part.
Speaker 3:Right, it's not a defect anymore than, like you know, missing an arm is a defect.
Speaker 1:Like, it's not a defect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's a re and like, if I'd only, then what could I have done? Yeah, right, so there's a. There's a bit of that. But I was in Edmonton till 2006 and it's great to be in another community, yeah, and have friends in other places and, you know, and that led to like doing a bit of work in like other centers as well, and it was my first experience Touring. I learned a lot about touring from you know how not to tour, from what things I did wrong, you know, on the first couple of tours. But I toured as a keyboard player for a children's theater show and then I toured as a, you know, performer, well, like actor, in another children's theater show, and then that was like okay, when I came to Saskatoon and started working with, got work with them, wide-open children's theater, that was like I know more about how to tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You like learn certain things for us, like okay, then I can take that and everybody learns things as they get older and have more Experiences. But then you go like okay, you know what? I spent so much time and money going like traveling all, like trying to travel all over Alberta when I live in Edmonton, to like go to every audition in every city. Yeah and I would just go and like show up and, but not know my stuff right.
Speaker 3:You know, and I'd be like, yeah, but I'm there, so I should get like that's it and I think, no, no, no, it's better to just For me it's better to focus. Then they say no to like myself, say no to like, even like all these opportunities, and just focus on what I want to do and really Commit to that and then be like okay, let's build it that way and don't stretch myself to you think, because I'm Think I'm better at figuring out my limits.
Speaker 3:but that's also part of like the Perform, that's part of the industry right which needs to be addressed.
Speaker 3:But it's also part of like, yeah, if you're not mentally, physically, you know, whatever able you, you are fucked. Yeah, like you're and the industry demand or maybe is changing, but like has demanded it. They're like, like I've worked with directors or they said, well, that person's not a very good dancer, all they need to do is take five hours of dance a week. It's like two dance lessons. And you're like, yeah, on top of going to auditions, on top of working, a day job on top of there's, on top of having a life, on top of the singing lessons, he told them to take the other lessons doing workshop. There is no time, and I don't know that there's. I mean the medical industry. People are overworked, teachers are overworked. I don't know a lot about. Like some industries where you would just Expect that people would pony up hundreds of dollars a month To over extend themselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah and then have you blame them if they don't. Yeah, like when they're already struggling to make, you know, an income on, like their Whatever stopgap job they have, like, and I sat down and I was like I don't know how to advocate for the person who is being blamed for that at times, but like that's not right. And it's a director, you know, or whatever that is saying that like somebody in power, yeah, and you go like, do you have any concept like how, yeah, put yourself in those shoes and it's like, and if you're, and if your limits, if you don't have as many spoons as a typical person does already, how are you supposed to do that? Yeah, it's too much for most like typical, like neurotypical or like whatever people yeah.
Speaker 3:It's even more too much, you know for others right and like we need. That needs to be addressed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, well, I think that that's an. I think that's an important Benefit or important Effect of your, of your play. I think it opens the doors to some of those conversations and I think I hope so yeah. I think we're seeing more and more to conversations around Accessibility, I think, and we're trying to foster some of those conversations.
Speaker 3:That's the word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and you know, understanding that not everybody comes to Everything that we're involved in it from the same place.
Speaker 3:No, okay, and like there are like I have blank spots.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm sure I do like about accessibility, right? I think yeah. I think everybody and it's like nobody, like even if you're working within it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like within disability, culture, like mad or Crip hard or whatever, yeah, or doesn't have to be art, but just disability in like a broader sense where you're like, yeah, you're gonna have blind spots, but like, yeah, and it's hard to be corrected and I'm sure I'm gonna be corrected a lot of other times. I so nobody's going to be perfect. And part, you know, maybe for me, partly some of the fear is like if I'm not perfect with my accessibility, then like oh, no right, but like it's okay to make mistakes because otherwise, if you're not good ready to make mistakes, you're not gonna like do the thing in the first place. Yeah, but as long as you're not a jerk when you you know, or when you've made it right, yeah, but yeah, it's accessibility, but we're working with Hoping to work with access, some accessible media ink okay, which is?
Speaker 3:a like. Sort of a they might correct us but like film production company, or to make a documentary company, to make a documentary on the process, you know up to this book well, not just up to this point, but to now and then, throughout rehearsals, and you know into production for the, for the show.
Speaker 3:So, we're waiting to hear back if that'll get, if they can program that, yeah. But like Tracy had Tracy Foster is that is great, she's phenomenal and and listen to this, it's phenomenal. But Tracy had the connection of like oh, I might have a project that they want to work on, like. So she had a, a connection with somebody. There was like we could do this. Like, because this was the first rehearsal process of this play Was one of the first processes. Tracy said this on the call when we were talking to accessible to AMI. Yeah, she was like. This process was one of the first processes where we all, like as a team, collectively felt that we came out of it with more energy than we had when we went into the show.
Speaker 3:That's saying something yeah, and like there were times where we didn't you know, yeah, but yeah, it was in terms of the people. There were other issues with, you know, production and, like you know whatever. But, like, in terms of the people in the room and what we created, that was like we were all like let's do this again. Like again, again, again and I already knew at that point that it was programmed by live five, but it was like, even beyond that, like that's, this show needs to have a life yeah and we all want to be involved and we all want to do this like this is exciting, how great.
Speaker 3:And it's partly because of how the room was and trying to create that, you know, accessible it's an accessible room. And and partly it was the audience response, like people going like, oh my god.
Speaker 3:And you know, sometimes people were tried it would ask us for like advice and we'd be like we're not doctors. So part of the learning on that was like we need to get mental health professionals, yeah, on site, like at the show, because they can come and talk to us about the show or just be like thanks, that was amazing. Or like this happened to you, and ask questions, like artists to audience or whatever. But I give it something specific. Then I'm like you we need supports on hand because there were people that you know that wanted that.
Speaker 3:There were people that were like Boston they got laughing.
Speaker 3:There were teens that came back multiple times with their friends and like 11, 12 year olds that came To see because they were like that's me and but then like grown adults that were like crying and couldn't ask their questions or you know they'd hang out in the lobby after yeah, not even for a talk back. They're just wait and like, but then not be able to say what they wanted to say because they were Like emotionally upset not upset isn't angry, but like just yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, involved yeah and involved and they couldn't get the words, so they'd send an email you know later, yeah explaining what was going on and how thankful.
Speaker 3:Or you know what had happened, or they said my mom came to see this in her 70s and she finally understood wow right or yeah, whatever yeah, so part of the documentary will be like Hopefully capturing some of that, but then, like it's about accessibility, because I've seen it with other theater companies when they want to be more accessible but sometimes don't have the language or just don't know how to be accessible. Yeah, and because theater companies are run by people and people are, you know, flawed or blind to the things that they don't know, yeah, and If we can like get that out there and have it documented and then be able to like Take it to other companies or just send it or whatever, and say like this is what, this is what we did in the process, because it's not just like Disability arts, it's like they are arts in general, but also I'd be like, you know, what does it have to be? Just the arts?
Speaker 2:like there are other Organizations or whatever that yeah, they're not rehearsing at play, but there are things they could do yeah, that would eliminate barriers or you know and benefit them yeah, yeah, it's um, I think, yeah, hopefully that you guys get the chance to Make that come to life. Even the documentate like you're talking about, like the, the, the documentation of the process, would just be fascinating. I really hope that that comes to light. So you know it must be rewarding. I think Rewarding and overwhelming to see people's reaction to, to your work. Yeah, so cool, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's overwhelming and really rewarding to have people comment and see the work or see the you know difference that the work can make. Yeah, it's also cool to just get the feedback where people are coming up and saying I love that play, but I had to think it's like, oh my god, the guy who plays the piano player, robin, is the same guy that's doing this cuz and I know that cuz. All I was was like On stage, costume changes or whatever, but you're so different and so quick and it was so cool. Yeah, and I could see the different, like physical, the different people right away and I'm like that's also fun to play with, like just from an actor's totally perspective yeah but it's yeah.
Speaker 3:It's yeah. I loved being able to talk, you know, with people afterwards or just hear the responses, like yeah. Tracy would come into the dressing room and on days that she was there, you know. So you know, I got this email yesterday about, or this morning about, last night show. Yeah, you should hear this. Or I thought I'd wait until after the show to tell you this one, because it's we do really good, but if you heard it before you would be a wreck.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like this was a saw, like a fantastic cry, like yeah, happy cry story.
Speaker 1:I told you after you know, like for sure you get such great responses and that's from like.
Speaker 3:I'm going to funders now To help fund, like task arts has already has funded and has funded it a couple of times. Canada Council funded the first one. I'm trying to get more funding for the second and I'm just like how do we like it's making a difference in people's lives?
Speaker 2:right, that's what our when art can do. That that's one of the most exciting Aspects of art. That's, I think, the good, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And this to me is like okay, yeah, like theater has struggled for a while. Some theaters like how do we get new audiences? We'll make new shows.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah people are so incoming just cuz they don't see themselves on stage, yeah, and if they go once and they're like, oh well, it was expensive and I didn't see it and I was poorly done and nobody cared, then they're not gonna go again. It's not the same as watching a Netflix show where you're like, yeah, I watched one bad movie, that doesn't mean I'm gonna hate all movies you know like.
Speaker 1:But with theater or something like that.
Speaker 3:There's more at stake, so treat your audience with risk, with respect. Yeah and but like create, create as long as it's honest and comes from an honest place. Like I, have ADHD. I'm writing a show about ADHD for people that have ADHD, or or for people, for loved ones and friends and whatever, and you don't have to have it to come see the show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's so fantastic that you get to mount your show again for a Saskatoon audience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know looking forward to it. Saskatoon is great, life 5 is great Like you know you get in on on that brand like it's their 20th anniversary year.
Speaker 2:Amazing. We'll put We'll put links in the show notes to everything so people can find it. Yeah we'll see what we can do for timing as far as well, yeah launches, you know, but I think, regardless, you know, definitely it was. It was a treat to have you come and talk today about Yourself and what you do and your play, and I would just very much encourage anybody, if you have the chance, to come out and see I have no idea when it's, when it's mounted here in Saskatoon with live 5 should be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool and.
Speaker 3:I should give props to. I guess, on cue performance hub in Regina Presented the first run. Yeah, and they're. You know, they're a new company, a new organization and they've got a seat. I can't remember all the shows, but they've got a season going on now too, so we'll link to them as well.
Speaker 2:They're they're constantly doing doing really interesting work as well. Yeah, and that was how, how I, how I, came to see your, your play.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly that's how it was presented. And now, like live 5 is amazing and they've got an amazing Board and you know team All volunteer, I believe. Yeah, and they've been going for 20 years. So it's super exciting to to bring the show to Saskatoon and to be working with them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right on. Well, thanks, Nathan, thank you. Yeah, talk to you soon.
Speaker 1:The next episode of arts everywhere is coming soon, so keep checking the Saskatchewan arts Alliance website and their social media pages for more information and if you're listening to the podcast through your favorite podcasting app, don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you don't miss a single episode. The arts everywhere theme music is composed by Saskatchewan musician Patrick Moon. Bird Dance into lo-fi from his album entitled 2021. Check out the show notes for links to Patrick's music. The Saskatchewan arts Alliance would like to thank our funders, sask culture and Sask arts, both of whom benefit from lottery ticket sales through Sask lotteries. Proceeds from Sask lotteries fund cultural organizations all across the province, and we wouldn't be able to do the work we do without your support. See you next time.